You know things are looking up when the Optimism Doctor is in. Dr. Deepika Chopra is a visual imagery expert, psychologist, podcast host, and the creator of Things Are Looking Up, a deck of optimism cards scientifically designed to help cultivate hope and joy. According to Chopra, optimism isn’t just about feeling good all of the time.

“Yes, it is a lot about experiencing joy, and we do want to increase our experience of joy,” Chopra said. “But also a huge part of it—and a huge part of happiness contrary to what a lot of people might think—is actually just developing the skills to be able to navigate the emotions that don’t feel so great.”

Burnout is one area where navigating tough emotions comes front and center. “Burnout is not something where you can just take a vacation and get better,” Chopra said. “Burnout is not [solved once you] take the day off. Burnout is more serious than that.”

The Second Life team was joined by Chopra last week for Second Life LIVE: Beating Burnout, where she shared how you can find optimism in your everyday life, tangible tips to combat burnout, and more.

For excerpts from Chopra’s conversation with Kerr, scroll below, and to hear more of Chopra’s wisdom, make sure to tune in.